Defying gravity - flute keys that tilt backward
Dear Flute teachers,
It's a fairly rare sight to see in professional flutists, but some players do seem to manage to play well with their keys tilting backwards (!)
I actually wouldn't be able to do it myself.
Watch this video of the La Scala Orchestra playing Mahler 3rd, and see how unusual the flutist's hand position becomes when he rolls his flute backward rather than line up his headjoint more inward to the key centers.
The big flute-piccolo feature is at minute: 2 min. 10 seconds. And feel free to comment.
I've rarely seen such a good example of backward tilting key tops.
Now compare the above video of the La Scala Principal player's key-top angle to that of Pahud and Baker in these photos below. Notice how Baker, Pahud, and most professional flutists key tops are parallel to the ceiling. I've always thought that was the only way that really worked to balance the heaviness of the rods, and stop the flute from rolling inward while you play.
Interesting and, for a professional player, quite rare.
Normally, if a student flutist were playing like this, I'd simply have them gradually start to turn their headjoint in more and get used to having the key tops parallel to the ceiling, so that the hands and fingers could work a great deal less hard holding the flute level.
I sure would love to speak to this Principal at La Scala and find out whether he has problems controlling pitch on thumb-free notes like C natural and C sharp.
Opinions, insights?
Best,
Jen
It's a fairly rare sight to see in professional flutists, but some players do seem to manage to play well with their keys tilting backwards (!)
I actually wouldn't be able to do it myself.
Watch this video of the La Scala Orchestra playing Mahler 3rd, and see how unusual the flutist's hand position becomes when he rolls his flute backward rather than line up his headjoint more inward to the key centers.
The big flute-piccolo feature is at minute: 2 min. 10 seconds. And feel free to comment.
I've rarely seen such a good example of backward tilting key tops.Now compare the above video of the La Scala Principal player's key-top angle to that of Pahud and Baker in these photos below. Notice how Baker, Pahud, and most professional flutists key tops are parallel to the ceiling. I've always thought that was the only way that really worked to balance the heaviness of the rods, and stop the flute from rolling inward while you play.
Interesting and, for a professional player, quite rare.
Normally, if a student flutist were playing like this, I'd simply have them gradually start to turn their headjoint in more and get used to having the key tops parallel to the ceiling, so that the hands and fingers could work a great deal less hard holding the flute level.
I sure would love to speak to this Principal at La Scala and find out whether he has problems controlling pitch on thumb-free notes like C natural and C sharp.
Opinions, insights?
Best,
Jen
posted by jen at 10:40 PM
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Comments (12)
All I can say is that that is rather strange, and if I did that, my hand would be completely useless by the end of an hour!!!
Another listener commented:
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I thought the flutist in the La Scala orchestra was generally playing flat as a result of his turning in so much.
I'm not sure it is so much of a balance issue, however. He may have have some kind of thumb rest or been pushing very hard with his LH index finger to keep the flute stable.
I have a very heavy gold flute with C# trill and split E, so I find that I have to roll the flute keys very much forward to get it to balance in the hands. This also means turning the headjoint in toward me a bit in the Rockstro position, even though I use a cork "roll bar" or "Thumbalina" which keeps the flute keys from rolling in toward me.
-------------anon.
And Jen adds:
I use the headjoint alignment described at www.jennifercluff.com/lineup.htm. This is the one where the center of the flute's middle joint keys line up with FAR edge of the blow hole, plus a thumbalina (Thumbport), and have the keys slightly tilting forward, but basically parallel to the ceiling. I have a lightweight flute (no gold, no C# trill) with a split E, and a flat chin.
I find that chin-depth makes a difference to headjoint alignment, as does hand size and finger length.
But the number one reason why I developed hand and arm pain was from inline G on an open-hole flute, and setting the headjoint line-up to the center-of-blow-hole lined up with center-of-keys.
So I've become hyper aware of this Keys Tilting Backward issue.
Thanks for your interesting comments anonymous and Sheila! :>)
Jen
I am seeing more and more players do bizarre things with their hands and with the line-up of their flutes. Another problem is that many players use head-joints of gold and platinum (heavier alloys) on silver bodies, thus causing more weight for the left hand and creating an imbalance.
With respect to this player, this is just bizarre. He is also closing off the airstream with his throat and the sound is shaky. The notes are not smooth and the ethereal quiet intended here is lost. This isn't Davide Formisano. This must be a guest principal or something....
Dear Spence,
Really? Are you seeing an increase in bizarre hand-face ratios in flute players?
Or has youtube just allowed us to see dozens more "flute recitals" than we ever could in one geographical locale? J.
I found another youtube video with the same slanty phenomena:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Uiw3bCRbruQ
Best, Jen
Jen,
Yes, I am...I am not sure what the deal is. I play on old Haynes and Powell flutes (both plateau and French) and they work for me. Seems like I can keep a better hand position with those flutes. (Because I grew up on them perhaps???) But low and behold, my hand issues didn't start until I started playing modern Japanese flutes.
Several flute makers have told me that the new dimensions of modern flutes, particularly Japanese, including differing key heights, etc. have caused instruments to speak more quickly but are not very ergonomic. Jack Moore once told me he believes there is a parallel between changes in flute dimensions and the increase in extensions and "stick-on" devices players are using today. All I can say is that I am much more comfortable physically on an old Powell or Haynes than on any modern flute I have found. I would never suggest that all players should do as I do, but there is a staggering number of players leaving the profession due to hand problems.
There is so much more to be said on this topic...
Spence
By the way, you are a GREAT communicator. If you don't have your own flute boot camp you need to start one!!!
Thanks for the "great communicator" compliment. It took me YEARS to slow down my thinking enough to be able to explain things clearly. I'm what they used to call a profoundly "lateral thinker". You should read my flute poem/spoofs! Very irreverent. :>)
You know I'm very interested in what Jack Moore said about modern instruments being less balanced in the hands. I've only ever played on Japanese instruments and I've got all sorts of extensions and thumbports stuck to my flutes.
Could you be our "field agent" and go and get an interview on record with Moore or other flute maker?
That would be incredibly helpful. Thanks for your input.
Best, Jen
As a former member of the flute industry in the States (I am now pursuing Psychology as my day career), I have had a beer, coffee, or tea with almost every major flute-maker of our time. I can tell you numerous things that have been said, some in private, some on the record.
I will say that almost every flute maker has told me that the ideal flute (ergonomically and acoustically) would be made with closed hole keys, offset, and B-foot. However, it is the market that drives flute manufacture, not the opinions of the people who build them. Much of what is available is driven by what famous flute players tell everyone to go out and buy! I am saddened by the arrogance of players who are NOT at all interested in the advice or opinions of the poor souls who labor in building our instruments. More American flutists would do well to seek their wisdom. James Galway's enthusiasm for creating relationships with makers like Nagahara and Lafin is something all flutists should do. It should be a symbiotic relationship.
I am also shocked by the debate over scale designs, etc. Kincaid, Baker, Nyfenger, Gilbert all played traditional scale flutes long before Albert Cooper's design become universal. I often hear people complain about the "out-of-tune" old Haynes and Powell flutes, but it is just as easy to play a modern flute grossly out of tune as well.
And why do so many of America's principal flutists play on older Powells if they are so terrible??
I could rant on the subject for days....
Agree totally, except for "old scale" vs. "new scale". That's still up for debate.
I find I have to lip so far down for C#2 and C#3 that it's like a workout for the face. I don't *need* a face work out when performing in front of an audience; I'd rather just slide effortlessly from pitch to pitch if possible. :>)
Love to hear more bonefind input about flute builders and ergonomics.
I play a closed hole (plugged), offset G, B-foot, and it seems to be working out.
Best, J.
Someone just emailed me:
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Jen, you need to get on facebook.
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And I thought I'd take this opportunity to say that I don't "friend" folk (no matter how friendly) and I prefer not to get into facebook, as I need to spend more time practising and less time on the computer. :>)
I already spend *enough* time yakking by typing.
So sorry...have fun anyway,
J.
This is a very interesting topic to discuss. I recently attended a program in which the lecturer discussed and suggested that we all play with our keys having a slight forward slant. Since then I have been playing with this idea and have come to the conclusion that having a slight slant or a more balanced hand position depends more on the preference of the individual and actually can actually differ practice to practice. I'm not sure if this is an acceptable finding but this is what I have observed in my own personal practice.